Anime Icons/Episode 2 transcript

Prologue
Narrator: "In less than three years, it went from a golden age..

Dan Green: "It's a part of nerd culture, it's about as mainstream as American comics nowadays."

Narrator: "To its darkest hour."

Jason Griffith: "Well let's put it this way, a lot of people didn't like One Piece. One Piece became one of the culprits of the crash."

Ken Sasaki: "It was the demise of the business in the US; and unfortunately, we didn't see it coming."

Christopher McDonald: "Sonic X was awful, and otherwise lacking in any redeeming values."

Jason DiMarco: "A lot of bad anime - both subbed and dubbed - got out there. I'd say the bad anime gets out there still, but some REALLY bad anime got out there in the 2000s."

Narrator: "This is the story of the birth and near death of the American anime market."

Part I
Narrator: "The story begins as the '90s ends, with flip phones and big dreams. The anime industry in the United States is in the middle of a boom, having gone from a niche industry to near-mainstream acceptance thanks in part to a franchise called Pokémon. And more anime sees itself on American store shelves and airwaves."

Ken Sasaki - CEO, Viz Media: "We at Viz wouldn't have seen success had it not been for Pokémon or, to a larger extent, Ranma 1/2 on home video. From that point on, we saw successes like Naruto. The profit margins were extraordinary. We were just... making more money than we could put in the bank."

Narrator: "And a generation of kids is hooked on anime."

Dan Green - Voice Actor, Yu-Gi-Oh!: "It's a part of nerd culture, it's about as mainstream as American comics nowadays."

Narrator: "Anime isles are in stores like Best Buy and FYE, and both kids and adults are drawn by the unique art form. dropping big bucks on the latest Japanese fad."

Eric Stuart - Voice Actor: "The anime crowd back in the old days was really interesting, because you had kids who liked Pokémon, Yu-Gi-Oh!, and Dragon Ball Z, and then you had high school students and college students liking Cowboy Bebop and Gundam, then it was really weird because you also had businessmen liking Cowboy Bebop also. it was weird, because it really was an all across the board phenomenon."

Narrator: "Fans of the anime art form are ecstatic that the technique is getting more acceptance in American pop culture. By 1999, 4Kids Entertainment gives Pokémon 's home video and manga rights to Viz, a San Francisco-based company owned by Japanese publishers Shogakukan and Shueisha."

Hidemi Fukuhara - Vice President, Viz Media: "Viz saw a lot of success with Pokémon during its heyday. This was the show that helped popularize anime as an art form.. And in the wake of Pokémon 's success, and the popularity of Dragon Ball Z ending up putting Funimation in Dallas on the map, you had a lot of companies that emerged overnight to try to acquire the latest anime from Japan."

Mike Toole - Anime News Network: "And of course, after the success of Sailor Moon, Pokémon, and Dragon Ball Z, then came companies like Pioneer, ADV Films, Bandai. Everyone had to jump into it."

Jason Griffith - Voice Actor: "And that opened up the industry. Before then, no one had a clue. And I think that one seminal event led to the overcrowding of the anime market in North America."

Narrator: "The theatrical and TV anime market in the United States is filling up with new companies."

Jason DiMarco - Producer, Adult Swim/Toonami: "And of course, as more companies got in, there's more anime being acquired for English audiences and just... not enough demand to support it. And of course, there's the shows coming in with companies rushing into the market. What happened was some of the companies that had contracts with Japanese licensors had to license most of the shows they had in Japan and Japanese licensors thought some shows that were popular in Japan could possibly replicate the success of Pokémon or DBZ. So if a new company got into the business, like Bandai and Nelvana for example, they would go out and spend a whole lot of money and get the rights to Gundam Wing - which was the first Gundam series to come to the States, Cardcaptor Sakura... but they weren't experienced in dubbing anime. However, while Gundam Wing turned out to be really good, Sakura was horrible."

Narrator: "Companies like Bandai and electronics maker Pioneer form anime divisions. But when companies like Nelvana, Miramax Films, and even telecommunications companies like IDT jump on board, the market begins to turn."

Ken Sasaki: "It was a problem. I just saw Gen Fukunaga of Funimation yesterday, and we remember being at Anime Expo. And we look at companies like Plastic Cow and laugh, and just say this is all a big joke, and the shows were outright horrible as a whole, or just had bad English localizations."

Jason DiMarco: "A lot of people just got burned. They just got tired of all these bad dubs in particular or bad titles overall. And for the good shows, they moved to piracy and fansubs. So, that drove people away from anime. Few companies had checks and balances for quality. A lot of bad anime - both subbed and dubbed - got out there. I'd say the bad anime gets out there still, but some REALLY bad anime got out there in the 2000s."

Narrator: "4Kids Entertainment, the producers of the English adaptation of Pokémon, also sees success with Yu-Gi-Oh!, and it seems they can't lose... Until they release an anime starring a video game favorite. With disappointing results."

Christopher McDonald - Co-founder, Anime News Network: "Here comes Sonic X starring Sonic the Hedgehog, one of the most iconic video game characters of all time. Everyone is really excited about it. 4Kids is 100% sure this show will be a hit, especially with a character as iconic as Sonic... The show stunk, really really stunk. The show took a lot of liberties with the storylines of the Sonic Adventure duology, Chris was a horrible character, the dub and edits done by 4Kids were even worse. There was just nothing redeeming about it."

Mike Toole: "Sonic X was a horrible, horrible show. They say the 4Kids dub was bad, but the show as a whole was bad to begin with. Even in Japan. I think a lot of Sonic fans hated the show as well."

Narrator: "In spite of the quality, the show does well on the FOX network. But the disappointing adaptation into English creates weariness in anime fans."

Part II
Narrator: "By the summer of 2004, localizing Japanese animation - or anime - has become an unstoppable industry. Companies like 4Kids Entertainment and FUNimation Productions lead the industry with their respective licenses of Pokémon and Dragon Ball Z. And the former capitalizes on their success by starting a Saturday Morning lineup on the FOX network."

Eric Stuart - Voice Actor: "When I voiced the character James in the 4Kids dub of Pokémon, I snuck in the line "Leo Burnett and 4Kids are the devil," because they weren't paying me to be in promos for Kids' WB - which aired Pokémon at the time. Little did I know anime fans really did think 4Kids were the devil with their treatment of later anime licenses."

Narrator: "Bandai and Viz aren't far behind with their latest respective acquisitions, Haruhi Suzumiya and Naruto."

Jason DiMarco - Producer, Adult Swim/Toonami: "The competition was getting really intense in terms of anime here in the United States. And for parents, there were concerns about violence. Shaman King aired on Saturday Mornings for example, and groups like the Parents Television Council were complaining about the content. But despite this, sales and ratings were still good. The competition just became really intense."

Narrator: "But the bubble is about to burst. In September 2004, 4Kids Entertainment acquires the rights to the Toei Animation series One Piece, based on the manga of the same name in Japan's Shonen Jump magazine."

Jason Griffith: "The way One Piece came down, I got a phone call saying there were auditions to the show. And I ended up getting the role of Usopp - which is the show's equivalent to Krillin in the Dragon Ball universe."

Jason DiMarco: "4Kids spent, how millions of dollars, to get the rights to One Piece, then rushed it into production and came up with this terrible heavily-edited dub. And the voice actors did the best job they could. But, it was poorly scripted, the voice direction and writing were horrible, and the soundtrack for the dub was ridiculous."

Mike Toole - Anime News Network: "And that was the unfortunate thing about 4Kids, they were after the name. But sometimes, the shows they licensed were aimed at much older audiences, despite their cartoonish style. The violence in the Japanese version of One Piece was more suitable for a PG-13 movie rather than a Saturday Morning cartoon. Not a good idea."

Narrator: "After having been bitten for poorly produced dubs of poorly produced anime, as well as over-marketing of the hit series Naruto, viewers of 4Kids and Toonami aren't excited for One Piece.

Jason Griffith: "Well let's put it this way, a lot of people didn't like One Piece. A lot of people who didn't even watch the original dub got into 4Kids-bashing. Its One Piece dub was the thing to bash. One Piece became one of the culprits of the crash. I mean, the crash was something everyone was aware of, but 4Kids' treatment of One Piece... you can't just tell the whole story. You gotta personify it. So, 'the anime industry crashes.' That's too big a story, it doesn't make sense. 'the failure of One Piece and the over-saturation of Naruto helped kill the anime industry'; that gives you a focus, that gives you a thing to hate. And the fact that One Piece bombed and its Shonen Jump rival Naruto was promoted too much, that was the focus."

Narrator: "In the summer of 2006, 4Kids is forced to announce crippling financial losses. The company's rights to Pokémon and One Piece are respectively transferred to The Pokémon Company and Funimation, and ratings for its 4Kids TV block on FOX take a nosedive. Toonami's ratings drop as well, and its then-flagship show Naruto, begins to lose popularity. And home entertainment distributors focused on anime. like Geneon, Bandai, and ADV Films, are suffering their own demise."

Eric Stuart - Voice Actor: "There were isles focused on anime in the DVD sections of stores like FYE, Best Buy, Sam Goody, Suncoast, Blockbuster... and by 2007, we were just full."

Bob Iger - Former CEO, The Walt Disney Company: "It was a fad. I think there was no other way to put it. Enough people start coming, and enough people start bringing anime stateside, it just kept growing. But then, ultimately, it collapsed under its own weight."

Eric Stuart: "Starting in 2006, an airing on Toonami or broadcast TV was not enough for a show to become popular."

Narrator: "A massive influx of anime on DVD and Blu-ray Disc leaves distributors overwhelmed with products. And even popular shows like Naruto and Bleach are getting lost in the struggle."

Mike Toole: "The problem was there was so much product out there, you have a big amount of dubbing companies or Japanese distributors releasing garbage."

Joseph Luster - Otaku USA Magazine: "A lot of what killed companies like 4Kids and ADV was either poor localizations or poor shows overall, an incredible amount of companies releasing garbage, and of course you can't forget fansubs and piracy. There was a lot of product on store shelves being marked down."

Ken Sasaki - CEO, Viz Media: "We said, well... they're all gonna go out of business. But, we didn't recognize what that meant. And when they did go belly up, all that product ended up in bargain bins or on eBay."

Joseph Luster: "Most DVD box sets and anime-based toy lines were sold at discounters or dollar stores."

Ken Sasaki: "I don't think anyone at Viz ever thought that even a popular show here in the US like, say Naruto and Pokémon would start struggling."

Mike Toole: "You know, the dubbing companies can't sell their stuff, they're no-longer in business. What do they do? They dump all their goods at cutthroat prices."

Joseph Luster: "It was a very difficult period. Fansubs were getting to be the go-to source for hardcore anime fans."

Ken Sasaki: "It was the demise of the business in the US; and unfortunately, we didn't see it coming."

Narrator: "And fears of a global financial crisis further cripples the industry."

Alfred R. Kahn - Former CEO, 4Kids Entertainment: "When I ran our two Saturday Morning lineups, I told the guys at FOX and the CW, 'you know, our industry is over in the next decade due our failing economy.' And looking back at One Piece, I never wanted to acquire the series in the first place. And it turned out that the heavy editing and not catering to hardcore anime fans by doing uncut releases of our licenses - as well as the decline of children's programming on broadcast TV led to the collapse of 4Kids in 2011. And we just didn't see it. We just didn't see it."

Narrator: "On September 20, 2008, Cartoon Network announces it would end Toonami effective immediately, with Naruto being the only anime left on schedule. And troubles for the anime industry are just beginning."

Part III
Narrator: "In the Spring of 2007, the market for Japanese anime had been oversaturated, and the bottom dropped out. 4Kids Entertainment, the industry leader, loses the rights to Pokémon and One Piece to Japanese rightsholders The Pokémon Company and smaller rival Funimation respectively; and lays off 11% of its workforce."

Ken Sasaki - CEO, Viz Media: "Well, we rode the wave. and it really crashed after the Fall of 2007. And sales of our anime and manga releases at Viz plummeted. Just plummeted. And Naruto, then our flagship show, began to lose its popularity after just two years. And although the manga it's based on got nominated for a Kids' Choice Award from Nickelodeon, Naruto lost to Diary of a Wimpy Kid. Nick just thought anime and manga were gone and there was no coming back. We still had our niche in manga and anime, but as a mainstream art form on cable TV in the US, there was no coming back."

Narrator: "In an attempt to revive the failing industry, Cartoon Network and Nelvana announce in 2010 they have jointly acquired the North American rights to Beyblade: Metal Fusion, a revival of toymaker Takara Tomy's wildly popular Beyblade franchise. Meanwhile, Nickelodeon's sister channel Nicktoons announces the acquisiton of the broadcasting rights to Dragon Ball Z Kai, a remastered version of Dragon Ball Z without filler episodes. But, many people believe it's too little, too late. Much of the public can't grasp anime as a broad-audience art form."

Joseph Luster - Otaku USA Magazine: "You know, by the end of the decade... a lot of broadcasters, Cartoon Network and The CW for example, decided that the only anime titles that were profitable in the US either were shows that were based on massive toy lines or children's card or video games or are already pre-existing anime IPs. But wait, Saturday Morning cartoons on broadcast TV, where Yu-Gi-Oh! has been relegated to, are getting increasingly irrelevant, and yet the only anime titles that are profitable are either based on toy lines or pre-existing IP? It was difficult to understand that rationale. That began the backslide, where the industry was declining for the first part of the 2010s."

Narrator: "And to make matters worse, teen sitcoms are making a comeback on American cable TV with hits like Disney Channel's Hannah Montana and Nickelodeon's iCarly. With production done in-house, many cable channels aimed at kids and young adults - even Cartoon Network - decide they can make more money and cut costs by investing more in original live-action programming."

Joseph Luster: "Anime fell into decline in terms of perception. I'll give you an example, around the 2000's, the most popular brands among girls and boys respectively in the 2000's weren't even cartoons or anime. For girls, there was Hannah Montana and High School Musical. While for boys, it was WWE wrestling. And it remained that way through the beginning of the 2010's. We're now into live-action and reality TV, while the only animated shows that were popular were Western cartoons for preschoolers and younger kids, as well as shows like Ben 10."

Eric Stuart - Voice Actor: "It was clear that Disney Channel and Nick were industry leaders for content aimed at young people, and it was obviously because of their teen sitcoms. And even Cartoon Network was in the mindset that pre-teens and teenagers were no longer interested in any animated shows. Not even anime. Which was a shame, especially since, say, Pixar continued to make critical and box-office hits."

Narrator: "Many of the companies, that years earlier were so desperate to get involved in the business of dubbing anime, were now just as desperate to distance themselves from it. September 2007, Geneon announces it will withdraw from the US home entertainment market by the end of the year. In September 2009, ADV closes its doors. And finally, on March 7, 2011, 4Kids Entertainment files for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. The dubbing companies start to vanish. Many people begin to think of anime as having only been a fad, which would soon disappear. But thanks to the Sony-owned distributor Aniplex, those people are wrong."

Joseph Luster: "By 2012, when Aniplex released Madoka Magica, I must say that when I looked at it, I was not impressed. I did not think its troll-marketing was gonna bring back anime. for western audiences. Yet it did, because people wanted that unpredictability."

Narrator: "Puella Magi Madoka Magica wins critics and audiences for its deconstruction of the magical girl genre and its animation, and helps revive the US anime market."

Gen Urobuchi - Creator, Puella Magi Madoka Magica (in Japanese): "Because this series is loved among westerners, I certainly feel humbled. I can honestly say I feel proud of the story I helped bring to life."

Mile Toole: "Aniplex helped turn the industry in the US around with edgy and dramatic fare with tons of action, shows that Americans really crave when they think of anime. Engaging stories like Madoka Magica, Durarara!!!, and Sword Art Online.

Narrator: "And when they started licensing their shows on their own, Aniplex was careful to avoid the mistakes of companies like ADV. To give their shows even more exposure, they team up with Adult Swim to broadcast shows like Durarara!!!, and they even set up an online store."

Jason DiMarco: "Now, companies specializing in anime - Netflix, Sentai, Sony through its Funimation and Aniplex subsidiaries, they try to be careful over the shows that come overseas. They wonder if the show is good enough for a foreign audiences as it is a Japanese audience. Does it have enough quality to warrant an overseas release."

Joseph Luster: "Let's face it. If it weren't for Aniplex, anime would be nothing more than a fad of the '90s and 2000s. Aniplex and Funimation's fan-first approach showed that people still want anime brought to western shores."

Narrator: "And the show does go on. Today, more than 150 million people around the world watch anime. An industry that nearly faded in the western hemisphere now enjoys even more popularity; and keeps growing. But has the anime industry learned from its mistakes?"

Cristina Vee - Voice Actor: "I'd like to think that the dubbing industry won't crash again, but you never know. I think the thing some companies have learned from the crash of the 2000s is, don't put your eggs in one basket. Don't make too much supply if there's not enough demand. Make sure you have a safety net below you with a few licenses that will at least make an impact. You can't just rely on one franchise or genre anymore. It's all about diversifying your lineup and making sure you have something for everyone just in case anime fans go 'I don't want that anymore, this is what I want.' And companies like Sony recognize that."